Possible compromise to "Elitist" Theory

FrothingLuck

FrothingLuck

Most Disliked Since 2015!
To get this out of the way early, I am posting a thread where I propose a sort of compromise to the creative server only allowing "Builders" to build in. It is in my honest opinion that this can and will cause a rift in this community. Even if you do not intend to create this elitist server community it will. While I have an entire distaste for this "Builder" rank, I think it will lessen people's hate for it this "Stepford" community if people are allowed to build in a certain area without the extra tools. For example, since the map is only 5000x5000 have 4000x4000 of the map dedicated to this "Builder" area and have 1000x1000 are where all people can build. I think this is a fair compromise. I would love to hear everyone's constructive ideas on this matter. So please if you do post, type in clear concise sentences and use full grammar. Thank you.
 
Wombatus

Wombatus

A l'aise Breizh
There is already a rift on the community with the VIP rank. And it works pretty good... honey.
 
oliverw92

oliverw92

Retired Administrator
It is hardly a throw away rank. In many ways it is more effective in terms of anti-grief game play than VIP.
 
ultimateironman

ultimateironman

2 year Wielder of Das Banhammer!
Frothing, in life there are ranks. In this one single area we want the best builders making creations. And it is more of a permission then a rank. And this permission is earned, not bought. Thats all there is to it.
 
oliverw92

oliverw92

Retired Administrator
It's not even that we only want amazing builders - we want a world that is totally free from griefing where people have no limitations when building.
 
FrothingLuck

FrothingLuck

Most Disliked Since 2015!
ultimateironman said:
Frothing, Creative is suppossed to be a world where we can show off our best and coolest creations. This one single place.

And its not truley a "rank". as all it does is add onto your permission. it doesnt actually replace any rank.

This also stops griefers from coming in and destroying in minutes the work of dozens of people.
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So if it isn't truly a "rank" then why is it referred to one in the wiki?
Basically if I'm reading this correctly, the server moderators and admins, instead of looking for a compromise at this issue, or even acknowledging that there is an issue, you would like to just tell me that, "there is not a problem". I'm okay with having a builder rank, its more about the "exclusive" use of a certain part of the server. I'm just saying if its added to the server, all players should have access to add to it. Even if it is in a small area that gets wiped every week. I believe this to be an issue of "I won't" instead of "I can't."
 
SgtSpike

SgtSpike

Site Admin & Server Owner
Staff member
Why should all players have access to it? It's effectively a whitelist for a single world. I don't see anything elitist about it - it's simply a different way of doing things than we have in the past.
 
SpartanGod6

SpartanGod6

Head Collector
I have a question for the creative world, i read how the Builders have Gray names and if Vips or Vips+ apply would their name color change at all ?
 
coffeejunky

coffeejunky

Server Moderator
Your VIP color will stay :)

Frothing an interesting piece of trivia, when we ran MCAdmin (a very long time ago) we had a builder rank then, and it worked very well. When we switched back to hMod we could not have the rank due to software limitations.

There is one very simple reason why creative is 'elitist', that is because not everyone can build nice things, much more than that some people decide to grief others things. If people do not apply to become builders then they can still build in any of our other worlds (we have 4 others for them where they can build anywhere they like). Also here is the other added benefit of the builder rank, a user comes to our server and decides he wants to play Creative, he cannot until he has built something nice in our legit worlds. Hopefully this will make him value the materials he will be using to build with rather than just see them as instantly available as and when they need it. It need not take them long to collect materials - just look at the epic things wombatus has built in dirt! Either way I feel it is really important that new users are exposed to this side of our community, Creative doesn't necessarily fit into our ethos but we thought it would be something amazing for our users to have.
As for having a 1kx1k area where people can build, we could do that, but people get very frustrated when their structures are wiped before they are finished. Furthermore, it takes up even more moderation time.

Just give the setup we have now a chance and see if it works, we're expecting that we may have to make changes: this is inevitable.

I should also add perhaps the most elitist part of this server is VIP+ users donate for little more than a different colour name. At least with the builder rank anyone can apply to build with no obligation to donate.
 
oliverw92

oliverw92

Retired Administrator
So now I have had chance to sleep on it...

Do I kinda like the idea of the 1k x 1k zone? Yes it isn't a bad idea.
Would it actually work? No. There are two aspects to look at this from - moderation and the actual server functionality itself:
  • Moderation: it would add yet another things for moderators to keep checking up on - 'so and so is building too close to me' 'so and so is griefing my stuff'. You may say that 'it is the moderators job' - we have to balance the amount of work moderators have. Nobody pays them - they do it voluntarily. I can't overload them with more work.
  • Server functionality: resetting a 1k x 1k area to how it used to be every few days is a massive strain on the server. Not only that, a plugin doesn't even exist that can do that yet, and I by no means have time to even consider doing that. Without that kind of plugin this idea wouldn't really work at all.
Will i revisit this idea in the future? Possibly, if creative isn't working out right.

I hope you find my argument valid and constructive.
 
FrothingLuck

FrothingLuck

Most Disliked Since 2015!
oliverw92 said:
So now I have had chance to sleep on it...

Do I kinda like the idea of the 1k x 1k zone? Yes it isn't a bad idea.
Would it actually work? No. There are two aspects to look at this from - moderation and the actual server functionality itself:
  • Moderation: it would add yet another things for moderators to keep checking up on - 'so and so is building too close to me' 'so and so is griefing my stuff'. You may say that 'it is the moderators job' - we have to balance the amount of work moderators have. Nobody pays them - they do it voluntarily. I can't overload them with more work.
  • Server functionality: resetting a 1k x 1k area to how it used to be every few days is a massive strain on the server. Not only that, a plugin doesn't even exist that can do that yet, and I by no means have time to even consider doing that. Without that kind of plugin this idea wouldn't really work at all.
Will i revisit this idea in the future? Possibly, if creative isn't working out right.

I hope you find my argument valid and constructive.
Click to expand...
After getting some sleep as well, I've decided that this matter isn't really worth persuing. As long as both the moderators and the admins actively monitor the creative server and look for ways to accomdate those who are not apart of this builder community some way to interact with the creative server outside of its current museum like display. I do hope at some point you will be able to accomdate this request. Thanks for taking the time to think about it.
 
dunkeroni

dunkeroni

Retired Melon
To troll the Troll:
Honestly you have no idea how elitist VIP and VIP Gold is compared to those of us who I like to call the Unworthy class. (Please note that the term Unworthy was not made in any offensive sense, but because of my shock at the number of things I required W8in's and LakeNanner's help with a while back.)
Before Builder rank the hierarchy was only between those who paid and those who didn't. Now, however, the new class would be able to give a minor raise to those who have actually earned a status, even among the Unworthies.

But also I would like to make a small point about geometry and square numbers for diminishing the 5Kx5K area.
5 4 4 4 4
5 4 4 4 4
5 4 4 4 4
5 4 4 4 4
1 5 5 5 5
For those of you who understood that, cutting the Builder rank area down to a 4x4 would remove 36% of the new world designed and reserved for those with the skill and desire to build there.
 
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