PVP Issues

PD400

<3
Well, to start off, I must say I enjoy the factions plugin greatly. However, some things have come up that I believe need to be changed.

First, the "Mod Ninjas". Where to start... Well, they are a faction comprised of entirely Moderators. Prior to the teleport plugin being fixed and re-implemented (Which, nobody seemed to know about, by the way), they were extremely overpowered. They have the ability to teleport at will without a request or any sort of obstruction. Normal players (AND VIPs) either need to request a teleport from the moderators, or in the case of the latter need to use the /tpr command, which requires the other player to accept. Next, the mod ninjas seem to have had their base built prior to map being made public, giving them a MAJOR advantage over other players. Finally, the Mod Ninjas also have knowledge of all of the commands which work on PVP. They have a source of infinite lumber from the AutoTimber, CollectItems, and AutoForest commands enabled by MineCart Mania, which nobody knew about. The only reason my faction even found out about it is because WakiMikoArck, a previous member of Mod Ninja's showed us it. And, to go further, testing commands to see which ones work, could easily get you banned by the very Mods I speak of. Overall, the existence of the "Mod Ninjas" is unfair, with too many advantages over regular players.

Next, I have a suggestion. While Factions-PVP is fun, I think some players would prefer to be on equal footing with everyone, instead of being unable to join a powerful faction. For this reason, I suggest that we have a second PVP created that does not use Factions.
 

coffeejunky

Server Moderator
Let me address your concerns (these points reflect my thoughts, I do not attempt to speak on behalf of the whole server here) -

1. We do have the ability to TP to any player, however we do not, ever abuse this ability to give ourselves an unfair advantage. If a mod did this it would be a solid case for demotion. We only TP to people so we can complete our moderation duties, we do not note co-ords or use logs to our advantage. This is a major part of the mod rules.

2. The Mod Ninja's base was not built before the map went up to the best of my knowledge. It was the result of alot of hard work from many members of the mod team.

3. The commands we know give us no advantage over other players.Indeed what commands do you specifically mean? You can check the bukkit forums and see the command lists for the plugins we use. The mod-only commands are there solely for us to perform our moderation duties.

4. As for Minecart mania auto thingers, if people had checked the minecart mania wiki, they too could have used these features.The future of them may be unclear, however.

Basically what you are suggesting is that the mod team do not participate in PvP, which would be terribly unfair, yes we have moderator commitments but this does not mean we should be stopped from enjoying ourselves. You have to trust that we mean no abuse, and indeed do not commit any abuse.

As for the final point if you don't want to be in a faction, don't join one, then it is like regular PvP. Besides the old PvP map got rather unpopular, much like the map before it.
 

PD400

<3
1. I did not mean that the moderators used their abilitys specifically to gain an advantage in pvp, however, by eliminating the need for both sides to agree to a teleport, whereas the mods can teleport to each other at any time and it still be considered a legitimate TP, seeing as they are teleporting to a teammate.

2. I can understand this, and that it was possible. However, I had not gotten a clear response when I asked in-game.

3. Mainly, my point with this is that there are some commands that even though they do not work, attempting to use them gets you banned. I am not saying this is a problem, however, there are some commands that we do not know if they work or not unless we try using them, and it can lead to being banned just for testing.

4. This makes sense, however, it makes me think we should have a list of mods/plugins installed that people can look at to know what there is. For example, not many seem to know about minecart mania.

I wasnt trying to suggest the mod team not participate in PVP, however, them all being in the same faction does provide a significant advantage over other players, and it may encourage elitism (Something the mods definitely don't need to be accused of) by both the mods, and other players may be drawn away from PVP because they feel they can't get serious progress.

The problem with simply not being in a faction, is that you still cannot attack, build, or destroy on a Faction's land. So no matter what, you are effected by Factions and their actions. I suggest a PVP map that is limited to 2500 or less, with the same spawn, that does not use Factions.
 

SgtSpike

Site Admin & Server Owner
Staff member
1. I'm not sure that there is any way for us to fix this. Yes, it is a disadvantage for non-moderator players. But we can't subject mods to asking for tp's the same way VIP's do, or it would give away who we are watching.

3. You will not be banned just for trying out commands. If you are blatantly using or trying to use commands that we know you know would be against the rules (like /give, or /item, or /i, or /xrai, etc), then yes, you are at risk of being banned. But we aren't going to ban you for trying out commands for just trying to figure out what commands are available.

4. We don't have a plugin list because of the risk of people stealing our plugin setup (which has happened before). Perhaps Oli has some input on the various commands available to general players, and how we can communicate the list of commands to said players. Also, I am not a fan of the auto harvesters. Seems like we may as well just allow /give if we use something like that. I am interested to hear the views of other players in the community regarding them though.
 

SpartanGod6

Head Collector
1. I'm not sure that there is any way for us to fix this. Yes, it is a disadvantage for non-moderator players. But we can't subject mods to asking for tp's the same way VIP's do, or it would give away who we are watching.

3. You will not be banned just for trying out commands. If you are blatantly using or trying to use commands that we know you know would be against the rules (like /give, or /item, or /i, or /xrai, etc), then yes, you are at risk of being banned. But we aren't going to ban you for trying out commands for just trying to figure out what commands are available.

4. We don't have a plugin list because of the risk of people stealing our plugin setup (which has happened before). Perhaps Oli has some input on the various commands available to general players, and how we can communicate the list of commands to said players. Also, I am not a fan of the auto harvesters. Seems like we may as well just allow /give if we use something like that. I am interested to hear the views of other players in the community regarding them though.
You do have a plugin list there is a command to check i am not going to write it here for guests to join and use said plugins for their own server.
 

MrTitan9

Former Server Moderator and Gearsofwar9
I agree with coffee you should read about this and moderators do not abuse their powers and so what if they had their base. I looked into the minecart mania so you should look it up
 

SgtSpike

Site Admin & Server Owner
Staff member
Spartan, the reason we do not have a plugin list is that we do not want people to recreate our current setup. It's proprietary information. It's not that we don't have a way to share that information, it's that we do not wish to share it.
 

MrTitan9

Former Server Moderator and Gearsofwar9
That is a good idea Sgt because i bet many people would copy your server
 

eaglestallon

Server Administrator
Staff member
NOTE: All of the following is Eaglestallon's own opinion/viewpoint on the subject being discussed here.

If I may add some things to what coffeejunky said pertaining to our most recent raid
1. surv faction made all of the strong factions their enemies. We (Ninja) formed a team of 4-8 players (some from other factions that were named in said enemy list joined in) and walked the compass points from spawn.
Once we located the base we issued the /tpr (now that this is up we try to follow all rules that you have to abide by. Don't want to be deprived of our spoils due to not following rules) requests to the said player that found the base. We claimed some land outside on a high point and set up shop. I think you all know the rest.

2. We started to build the same time everyone else did, we just had about 3-4 people constantly building, smelting, and mining materials. This went on for oh 1-2 days until the base was built. I personally can vouch that Oliver wouldn't even let me out of spawn while we were setting the server map up to go find a spot, I was limited to just up to the outside wall and that was it. The moment you guys started to log on to the server we hit the road and started walking to find a place on the map.

4. Even I was surprised to see this. Do I echo Sgt's thoughts on this? Yes I do, but that's just my own opinion. :thinking: Is it nice to have a cart picking up your wheat and replanting it? Yes and no. :o.0: If it's a community chest I don't see any real reason for objecting as there most likely would be someone responsible to go tend said farm. But if it's a single person? I don't know. That's where the line blurs for me.
 

oliverw92

Retired Administrator
MinecartMania - i'm putting an info thread and a poll up tomorrow about the automations stuff. It has been common knowledge we have had MCMania for a long time now, however i only put the automations on last week. If the community decides they don't want it, it will be gone.

Ninja faction - why is it unfair for us to have a faction with our friends? A mod doesn't have to be in the mod faction if they don't want to be. And we don't have to accept people if we don't want to. Why do there have to be different rules for moderators?

Teleporting - I created the TeleRequest plugin for the sole purpose of making things fairer on pvp and to make it easier for moderators to moderate. There is now a policy that when playing pvp, moderators always use TeleRequest instead of just tp'ing. We are enforcing that strictly.
 

PD400

<3
Teleporting, that's good to hear.

Ninja Faction - This relates back to the teleporting issue that is now fixed. I wasn't trying to insinuate that the mods shouldnt have their own Faction, but it does appear Elitist to some.

I just wanted to bring this to light and get some issues cleared up. Thanks for the response, guys.
 

oliverw92

Retired Administrator
If we can do anything to improve it, please let us know. These kind of threads help the server massively.
 

hacattack3000

Retired Plugin Admin
I thought I'd point something out... Pd400, you said,
the mod ninjas seem to have had their base built prior to map being made public, giving them a MAJOR advantage over other players.
That is completely false. We started building our base the time the map was available to the public. The fact that we have 15 mods that worked on it around the clock with a minimum of 4 mods on it at all times, is why it was built so quickly. There is absolutely nothing the mods are doing that is unfair. Even when teleporting, all the moderators are in mumble when we PvP. Every last one of the mods clearly ask for teleports before going, once we have consent, we go. Ever since the /tpr came, that's all we use for PvP now. We are quite literally no different from any other player, and none of the mods abuse any of the powers.
 

NZ_Forever

One of the "original PvP terrorisers"
I like this thread. Its PD400 vs. the Mod and Admin team(s). I am inclined to side with PD400 90% because i don't like the fact that we have an exclusive Mod and Admin only faction in PvP. I find it similar to a white list and this exclusive faction gives me a whiff of one in the future........ and 10% because I love VIP vs. Mod fights- I'm pretty loyal to my side.
 

oliverw92

Retired Administrator
At the end of the day - don't look at it as a mod only faction. Look at it like any other faction - when you look at it like that, why is it unfair of us to say we don't want other people in it? Surely everyone should have a right to accept and deny people from their faction?
 

Gordosanchez

New Member
1. I did not mean that the moderators used their abilitys specifically to gain an advantage in pvp, however, by eliminating the need for both sides to agree to a teleport, whereas the mods can teleport to each other at any time and it still be considered a legitimate TP, seeing as they are teleporting to a teammate.

2. I can understand this, and that it was possible. However, I had not gotten a clear response when I asked in-game.

3. Mainly, my point with this is that there are some commands that even though they do not work, attempting to use them gets you banned. I am not saying this is a problem, however, there are some commands that we do not know if they work or not unless we try using them, and it can lead to being banned just for testing.

4. This makes sense, however, it makes me think we should have a list of mods/plugins installed that people can look at to know what there is. For example, not many seem to know about minecart mania.

I wasnt trying to suggest the mod team not participate in PVP, however, them all being in the same faction does provide a significant advantage over other players, and it may encourage elitism (Something the mods definitely don't need to be accused of) by both the mods, and other players may be drawn away from PVP because they feel they can't get serious progress.

The problem with simply not being in a faction, is that you still cannot attack, build, or destroy on a Faction's land. So no matter what, you are effected by Factions and their actions. I suggest a PVP map that is limited to 2500 or less, with the same spawn, that does not use Factions.
all the mods that TP to me ask first they even send me a TPR i seen no mod abusing their powers.
[ EXCEPT: Jacca!!!!! (TORLL)]
 

SpartanGod6

Head Collector
At the end of the day - don't look at it as a mod only faction. Look at it like any other faction - when you look at it like that, why is it unfair of us to say we don't want other people in it? Surely everyone should have a right to accept and deny people from their faction?
I must agree it's basically like any other faction except they invite whoever they want they and mods don't have to join if they don't want to so just like Oli said at the end of the day it's just like any other faction a group of friends on Pvp.
 
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